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Sky reveals HDTV launch lineup



 
 
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  #261  
Old August 29th 05, 09:38 AM
André Coutanche
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Sal M. Onella wrote:

BTW, where does SECAM figure in this? Maxim didn't address it
in their table.


*****

Not sure about the detailed technicalities, but AIUI, SECAM is just a
different way of encoding the colour information and, given that it
was designed for use on the European standard of 625/50, is little
different in practice from PAL.

It was, in case you don't know, a French system, developed at the same
time as the German-developed PAL. NTSC, being the first kid on the
block, was seen to be improvable for when Europe moved to colour
(though suggestions that SECAM stood for Système Electronique Contre
les AMéricains may be overstated). At the time, de Gaulle's friendly
relations with the Soviet Union led to SECAM being adopted by the USSR
and the satellite countries of Eastern Europe. Since then, the
political support has disappeared and the market has done what markets
do and all televisions in France are now dual-standard - PAL and
SECAM.

André Coutanche


  #262  
Old August 29th 05, 09:44 AM
Adrian
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Sal M. Onella wrote:
"Charlie Pearce" wrote
in message news

I think what Mr. Onella meant by "We are getting more of an upgrade
with HDTV" was that 480 - 720 or 1080 is a bigger improvement than
576 - 720 or 1080....

Charlie



Yes, that is correct. Our NTSC is pretty much a "low-end" item.
NTSC was OK when it was the only game in town, but the image
is so outclassed by HDTV! Not sure if lifelong PAL users feel
the same sense of improvement.

Incidentally, the Maxim Company website has an instructive table at
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/750 . It is
"Performance Requirements for Various Video Standards." (I found
it while looking for Kell Factor, which I found well-explained on this
and other pages.)

BTW, where does SECAM figure in this? Maxim didn't address it
in their table.

"Sal"


As far as the picture goes SECAM is equal to PAL


  #263  
Old August 29th 05, 12:12 PM
Paul Ratcliffe
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On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:35:53 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

Just to be pedantic, the lines are all the same duration. In the analogue
world, the 2 lines are half blanked to give 2 x 1/2 active lines.
In the digital world, the lines are full width, giving 576 active lines.


They come out of cameras as half lines, so the signal that is transmitted cannot
have any more picture info than that.


As I said, only in the analogue world.
  #264  
Old August 29th 05, 01:39 PM
Roderick Stewart
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In article , Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
Just to be pedantic, the lines are all the same duration. In the analogue
world, the 2 lines are half blanked to give 2 x 1/2 active lines.
In the digital world, the lines are full width, giving 576 active lines.


They come out of cameras as half lines, so the signal that is transmitted cannot
have any more picture info than that.


As I said, only in the analogue world.


An SDI video signal displayed on a monitor shows the half lines at top and bottom of
the picture. Is there more? If so, where is it being lost?

Rod.

  #265  
Old August 29th 05, 09:42 PM
Peter Duncanson
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On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:32:37 +0100, Mark Carver
wrote:

(as stated elsewhere in this thread).


Oops! I had looked upthread but had not seen the mention.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
  #266  
Old August 30th 05, 04:33 AM
Sal M. Onella
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"André Coutanche" wrote in message
...
Sal M. Onella wrote:

BTW, where does SECAM figure in this? Maxim didn't address it
in their table.


*****

Not sure about the detailed technicalities, but AIUI, SECAM is just a
different way of encoding the colour information and, given that it
was designed for use on the European standard of 625/50, is little
different in practice from PAL.

It was, in case you don't know, a French system, developed at the same
time as the German-developed PAL. NTSC, being the first kid on the
block, was seen to be improvable for when Europe moved to colour
(though suggestions that SECAM stood for Système Electronique Contre
les AMéricains may be overstated). At the time, de Gaulle's friendly
relations with the Soviet Union led to SECAM being adopted by the USSR
and the satellite countries of Eastern Europe. Since then, the
political support has disappeared and the market has done what markets
do and all televisions in France are now dual-standard - PAL and
SECAM.

André Coutanche


Thanks, André. I knew it was French and I I knew the color system was
somehow
different. If it's a 625/50 system, then it would have sharpness and detail
comparable to PAL, which is what I didn't know.


  #267  
Old September 1st 05, 01:32 AM
Gary
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Telephone calls may be recorded for quality assurance and security purposes.
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Sal M. Onella wrote:
"Charlie Pearce" wrote
in message news

I think what Mr. Onella meant by "We are getting more of an upgrade
with HDTV" was that 480 - 720 or 1080 is a bigger improvement than
576 - 720 or 1080....

Charlie



Yes, that is correct. Our NTSC is pretty much a "low-end" item.
NTSC was OK when it was the only game in town, but the image
is so outclassed by HDTV! Not sure if lifelong PAL users feel
the same sense of improvement.

Incidentally, the Maxim Company website has an instructive table at
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/750 . It is
"Performance Requirements for Various Video Standards." (I found
it while looking for Kell Factor, which I found well-explained on this
and other pages.)

BTW, where does SECAM figure in this? Maxim didn't address it
in their table.

"Sal"


As far as the picture goes SECAM is equal to PAL


A Secam picture is better than PAL. SECAM is a colour TV system that is
optimised for colour reception. PAL is a colour system that is Black & White
compatable. The system is optimised for its B&W performance. The french
SECAM when displayed on a B&W tv has faults to the picture that are not
presant in PAL on a black and white TV. ( this is not the same as a colour
tv set to black and white) Secam is a bitch to mix and as a consquence
most SECAM output is from PAL source. that of course negates the advantages.


Gary




  #268  
Old September 1st 05, 04:09 AM
Sal M. Onella
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"Gary" wrote in message
...

Secam is a bitch to mix and as a consquence
most SECAM output is from PAL source. that of course negates the

advantages.


Wow! That explains something I dimly recall reading years ago: A lot of
SECAM is just converted PAL. All of a sudden that makes sense. tks.


  #269  
Old September 1st 05, 09:15 AM
Roderick Stewart
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In article , Gary wrote:
A Secam picture is better than PAL. SECAM is a colour TV system that is
optimised for colour reception. PAL is a colour system that is Black & White
compatable. The system is optimised for its B&W performance. The french
SECAM when displayed on a B&W tv has faults to the picture that are not
presant in PAL on a black and white TV. ( this is not the same as a colour
tv set to black and white) Secam is a bitch to mix and as a consquence
most SECAM output is from PAL source. that of course negates the advantages.


ALL the analogue colour systems were designed as additions to existing
monochrome systems, so they're ALL compromises of one sort or another, with
different strengths and weaknesses. Which ones you think are important will
depend on what you think the biggest problems are.

Declaring SECAM pictures to be "better" is a bit of an over-simplification.
Even if it were true in the case of a picture containing a lot of colour, this
doesn't say everything necessary about SECAM as a system, because the system
has to be capable of handling all types of pictures, including monochrome ones,
through all the processes a broadcaster needs to use.

As you point out, the designers of SECAM only seem to have considered the needs
of a transmission system, and don't seem to have thought about the
practicalities of making programmes, without which the transmission system
would be pointless.

Rod.

  #270  
Old September 3rd 05, 06:09 PM
Albert Ross
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On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:29:59 +0100, Mark Carver
wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:
In article , Mark Carver wrote:


It was simulcast on BBC 2 in 625 lines according to this:-

http://www.tvhistory.btinternet.co.u...roadcasts.html



Only from 9.00am, after the historic event had already happened, which fits with my
personal recollection. I thought it a shame that they couldn't have made an
exception and switched on the higher quality network for something so special.


Indeed ! Though in July 1969 were BBC 1 and ITV on 'trade test' in 625 from
Crystal Palace (and perhaps other transmitters)? and therefore the coverage
might have been shown by either or both of those two in 625 ?
(I realise the official 625 launch for BBC1/ITV was not until November 1969)

Heaven knows how the broadcasters would cover such an event today, we might
just catch a glimpse of the moon's surface in the gaps between the 'breaking
news' banners, on screen clocks, and DOGs.


And Jonathon Ross would be there already to welcome them and talk
about himself.
 




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