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  #21  
Old August 25th 06, 12:08 PM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Paul
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Posts: 11
Default SKY+

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

You may consider I've been ripped off with my 100 Gucci jeans
from Harrods, I may consider you are a chav in your 5 tesco jeans and
wasted your money.


Me being a chav has nothing to do with designer jeans being a rip-off.

As I explained, the definition of rip-off is very simple: it is being
charged substantially more than a product or service is worth.
Perceived notions are neither here nor there.


what something is worth is very much a perceived notion.

I agree with you 100%. Asking those at work with me today and they
also agree. However, Jomtien doesn't and so we are wrong and
he is right !

Jomtien, who defines what a product or service is worth ?

As I said before, if I consider something is being offered at a fair
price then it is not a rip off to me. Only I can decide if something
is worth the asking price.

According to wikipedia a rip off is in the eye of the beholder.


  #22  
Old August 25th 06, 01:37 PM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Zero Tolerance
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default SKY+

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:26:42 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:

what something is worth is very much a perceived notion.


And some people have difficulty in distinguishing similar things. For
some, there is no difference between a 500 pair of Luis Vutton jeans,
and a 5 pair from Tesco. They are absolutely the exact same thing,
and therefore the LV item must be a rip-off. However, the people who
buy LV jeans will probably tell you that they buy them for a reason -
yes, for the name, but also because they're most likely to be better
made, better stitched, with better fabric, etc.

Now, OK, no question that the 'designer' labels do make a
substantially higher profit as well, and in the cases where these
labels act to prevent retailers from discounting their products, then
arguably yes, that is a rip-off. But the point is that just because
something is cheaper doens't necessarily mean it's exactly the same.
Sometimes it is worth paying more for something that's better made.

--
  #23  
Old August 25th 06, 02:27 PM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Tumbleweed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default SKY+


"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:26:42 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:

what something is worth is very much a perceived notion.


And some people have difficulty in distinguishing similar things. For
some, there is no difference between a 500 pair of Luis Vutton jeans,
and a 5 pair from Tesco. They are absolutely the exact same thing,
and therefore the LV item must be a rip-off. However, the people who
buy LV jeans will probably tell you that they buy them for a reason -
yes, for the name, but also because they're most likely to be better
made, better stitched, with better fabric, etc.


They arent exactly the same though. They have a 'cachet' or status about
them **to the buyers** that makes them worth that to the buyer.Even though
Jomtien wouldnt be seen dead in them and doesnt value that status at all.
Someone else does. As I said, value is mostly about perception, not fact.
Thats why one year houses are worth X, the next X+20% and the next X-20%.


Now, OK, no question that the 'designer' labels do make a
substantially higher profit as well, and in the cases where these
labels act to prevent retailers from discounting their products, then
arguably yes, that is a rip-off. But the point is that just because
something is cheaper doens't necessarily mean it's exactly the same.
Sometimes it is worth paying more for something that's better made.


Sometimes people think its worth paying for the badge and only that.
They perceive the logo to be worth it. Those who pay 100 for gucci jeans no
doubt perceive the logo as being worth about 90. I suppose you could argue
they are buying jeans for 10 and a logo for 90.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com



  #24  
Old August 26th 06, 08:54 AM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Jomtien
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default SKY+

Paul wrote:

what something is worth is very much a perceived notion.

I agree with you 100%. Asking those at work with me today and they
also agree. However, Jomtien doesn't and so we are wrong and
he is right !


Well, there you go.


Jomtien, who defines what a product or service is worth ?


The market. If five places sell a discombobulator for 10 and one
sells it for 50 then the one is a rip-off. It matters not whether
people are prepared to pay it, or whether they think they are being
ripped-off or not.

A rip-off is anything being sold for substantially more than its
normal price or for which the price bears little or no relation to the
cost of providing the item or service.
Given that the Sky+ recording function (aka "service") has NO
production costs at all above those of the EPG which is provided free
to all digibox users, this 10 fee is clearly a rip-off.


As I said before, if I consider something is being offered at a fair
price then it is not a rip off to me. Only I can decide if something
is worth the asking price.


This is neither here nor there.

If I buy a perfectly good vacuum cleaner for half of its normal price
and then decide for whatever reason that I have been ripped-off, does
that make it likely that a court will find in my favour and order a
refund? Of course not.

Opinion and perceived worth is meaningless.


According to wikipedia a rip off is in the eye of the beholder.


Wikipedia is riddled with errors.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC/ITV reception trouble? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
  #25  
Old August 26th 06, 08:54 AM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Jomtien
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default SKY+

Zero Tolerance wrote:

But the point is that just because
something is cheaper doens't necessarily mean it's exactly the same.
Sometimes it is worth paying more for something that's better made.


Something that really is better made is worth more than something that
less well made. To sell a cheap and nasty item for the price of a good
one is clearly a rip-off too.

However, having a designer label on is absolutely no indication of the
quality of the item. I could stick a designer label on a 3 pair of
Tesco jeans (indeed if you look in your local market you will probably
find many such) but that won't make the jeans worth more than 3 even
if I charge 50 and even if you pay it.

The label on a thing is not a guarantee of quality and so to be
charged for the label and not the quality is clearly a rip-off.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC/ITV reception trouble? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
  #26  
Old August 26th 06, 08:54 AM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Jomtien
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default SKY+

Tumbleweed wrote:

They perceive the logo to be worth it. Those who pay 100 for gucci jeans no
doubt perceive the logo as being worth about 90. I suppose you could argue
they are buying jeans for 10 and a logo for 90.


And no matter how you look at it, this is a rip-off.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC/ITV reception trouble? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
  #27  
Old August 26th 06, 11:36 AM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Zero Tolerance
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default SKY+

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:54:05 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Something that really is better made is worth more than something that
less well made.


Exactly.

The label on a thing is not a guarantee of quality and so to be
charged for the label and not the quality is clearly a rip-off.


Certainly, if the label alone is all that you are being charged for.
However, sometimes if you pay more, then along with the label you do
get a better quality of fabric, deeper dyeing, etc., and all the
things that make "a better pair of jeans". If that matters to you then
there is sometimes value in spending more than the minimum possible.
As a wearer of jeans, this is something only you can judge for
yourself as to whether (a) there IS any difference in quality, and (b)
whether it is important enough to you so as to be worth the extra.
--
  #28  
Old August 26th 06, 02:00 PM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Tumbleweed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default SKY+


"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:54:05 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Something that really is better made is worth more than something that
less well made.


Exactly.

The label on a thing is not a guarantee of quality and so to be
charged for the label and not the quality is clearly a rip-off.


Certainly, if the label alone is all that you are being charged for.
However, sometimes if you pay more, then along with the label you do
get a better quality of fabric, deeper dyeing, etc., and all the
things that make "a better pair of jeans". If that matters to you then
there is sometimes value in spending more than the minimum possible.
As a wearer of jeans, this is something only you can judge for
yourself as to whether (a) there IS any difference in quality, and (b)
whether it is important enough to you so as to be worth the extra.


....and (c) whether the logo is worth it for the sense of superiority it
gives you.
--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com



  #29  
Old August 27th 06, 07:25 AM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Jomtien
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default SKY+

Tumbleweed wrote:

...and (c) whether the logo is worth it for the sense of superiority it
gives you.


This is the rip-off part, regardless of whether the pea-brained morons
who buy such nonsense think they are getting value for money.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC/ITV reception trouble? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
  #30  
Old August 27th 06, 07:25 AM posted to uk.media.tv.sky
Jomtien
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default SKY+

Zero Tolerance wrote:

The label on a thing is not a guarantee of quality and so to be
charged for the label and not the quality is clearly a rip-off.


Certainly, if the label alone is all that you are being charged for.
However, sometimes if you pay more, then along with the label you do
get a better quality of fabric, deeper dyeing, etc., and all the
things that make "a better pair of jeans". If that matters to you then
there is sometimes value in spending more than the minimum possible.
As a wearer of jeans, this is something only you can judge for
yourself as to whether (a) there IS any difference in quality, and (b)
whether it is important enough to you so as to be worth the extra.


If you look at my initial comment about this you will see that I
specifically mentioned that the designer jeans probably came out of
the same sweatshop and were of no better quality.

*If* the quality is better then they are worth more. However I doubt
that the quality of any pair of jeans could ever be 15 times better
than that of the 3 Tesco pair.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC/ITV reception trouble? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
 




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